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In the Tamil book Hindu Madham Enge Pogirathu | இந்து மதம் எங்கே போகிறது (where is the Hindu Religion headed) by

Suruthi Shmiruthi ithikaasaPuraana miimaamsaathvaaya suthra visaarathaVedaarththa rathnaakara VedhavaachaspathiMahobaathyaayaMahamahobaathyaayaAgnihothramRamanuja Thaaththaachariyar

Tatachariyar cites Vedanta Desikan the Srivaishnavite teacher to the effect that

"a sudra who worships Vishnu who is said to be Brahman in the Vedas becomes a Brahmin. A Brahmin without Vishnu-bhakti becomes a Sudra"

(1) where does Vedanta Desikan say this?

(2) Do other preceptors say that Bhakti can override caste by birth?

EDIT:

not a duplicate of

Any references where varna/caste is determined independent of birth/parentage?

which asks only about birth.

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  • Yes there are such sources where Bhakti overrides caste. Some also believe in astrological based Varna. Btw, on a kind note, why don't you follow what you advise me ? Realise the divine, eh ? Caste, gender all are mis identifications or avidya. True witness-consiousness is beyond all this.
    – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru
    Commented Aug 16, 2023 at 19:10
  • You are 100 pct correct. all these manifestations of avidya don't matter - but some of the outrageous manifestations still get my goat @SethuSrivatsaKoduru In other words, posting for knowledge as opposed to posting for truth.
    – S K
    Commented Aug 16, 2023 at 19:29
  • As you wish, I am answering this then. The problem as Vivekananda said in current society is we are still obsessed with clothes, touching each other and leaving behind the truth of Upanishads. Its also deeply saddening to see your correct post on Origin of Puranas being drowned
    – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru
    Commented Aug 17, 2023 at 6:55
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    There are many questions already asked on this forum dealing with determinants of caste. You have made a presumptive and unverified statement that caste is based on birth. I suggest you peruse some of the prior questions.
    – Swami Vishwananda
    Commented Aug 17, 2023 at 9:43

1 Answer 1

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I am answering second part ' Do other preceptors say that Bhakti can override caste by birth'

Even a person born in a family of dog-eaters immediately becomes eligible to perform Vedic sacrifices if he once utters the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or chants about Him, hears about His pastimes, offers Him obeisances or even remembers Him. They are worshipable and must have executed all kinds of austerities and fire sacrifices and achieved all the good manners of the Aryans. They must have bathed at holy places of pilgrimage, studied the Vedas and fulfilled everything required. (SB 3.33.6–7)

If a Bramhana has all Brahminical qualifications but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything — mind, words, activities, wealth and life to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called Brahmana in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself. (SB 7.9.10)

If one shows the symptoms of being a Bramhana, Ksatriya, Vaishya or Sudra as described above, even if he has appeared in a different caste, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification. (SB 7.11.35)

Yogis are born among all castes; and no caste-odium shall hold in their cases, for they have seen their souls.(Bharadvaja-Samhita,1.44).

One who is a devotee of Supreme Personality of Godhead can never be called a Sudra, rather he is glorified as a Bhagavata or one who is connected with Bhagavan.If one is not a devotee of Lord Krsna,however,even if born of a Brahmana, Ksatriya or Vaisya family, he should be considered a Sudra.(Hari Bhakta Vilasa,10.165)

Oh Lord at Sri Rangam! Even brahmins Learned in all the four Vedas and their six adjuncts, will become outcastes, should they decry Your devotees in the low caste”.(Thirumaalai,43)

These eight kinds of Bhakti even if they exist in a Mlechha(a non-Hindu), turn him into a prince of Brahmins, a sage, an ascetic, a truly wise man.” (Garuda Purāṇa 1.231.9-10)

A genuine Vaishnava is superior to all the Varnas and is the best of all. (Padma Purana,Uttara Khanda 39)

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