Vidya without a Physical Guru? [duplicate]

Question

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• What/Who is guru? Can it be a concept/idea/teachings or necessarily be a physical person? 2 answers

I heard from many teachings that 'Guruvu leni vidya ranimchadhu' (telugu) which means the skill or knowledge gained without guru doesn't shines.

Which text says the above phrase and who says to whom?

If it is true, then my doubt is that does guru has to be in-person or guru can be remote person? Suppose now a days world is going online, if a guru is posting videos and people are following, such vidya shines or not?

Note that here Vidya refers to skill in any field such as mantra siddhi, archery, research, martial arts etc., not only brahma gyan. Suppose Arjuna became skilled archer with the help of his guru Drona, suppose a person learns archery as ekalavya, does it shine?

In Ramayana and Mahabaratha there are gurus such as Vashistha, Kripacharya, Drona etc., they gave focused guidance to their sishyas. Does vidya shines if guru-sishya relation is not face-to-face?

Answer 1

'Guruvu leni vidya ranimchadhu' (telugu) which means the skill or knowledge gained without guru doesn't shines.

There is a verse in KulArnava Tantram which exactly says the same thing. Only difference is in the words used. Lord Shiva says to Devi:

MuktidA GuruvAgekA VidyA SarvA VirambakAhA | KAsthabhArasramAdsmAdekam Sanjeevanam Param ||

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Only Guru's words or advice is capable of giving mukti or liberation. Without Guru's upadesha or advice or guidance all vidyas or all forms of knowledge deprive us. Guru's amtita (nectar) like words and advice give liberation from the weight of (such nishphala vidyas) or fruitless knowledge.

KulArnava Tantram, Chapter 1, Verse 107.

Consider this as a partial answer.

Answer 2

Vidya which if gained without Physical guru shines or not?

The answer to this question according to me is NOT. The answer is provided by Shree Adi Shankarachrya in his stotra called Guru Astakam (गुरु अष्टकं) , a hymn with 8 verses in praise of the Guru , which is my most favorite.

षडङ्गादिवेदो मुखे शास्त्रविद्या कवित्वादि गद्यं सुपद्यं करोति
मनश्र्चेन लग्नं गुरोरङ्घ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ॥3॥

ṣaḍańgādivedo mukhe śastravidyā
kavitcādi gadyaḿ supadyaḿ karoti
gurorańghripadme ḿanaścenna lagnaḿ
tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ

Translation: The Vedas with their six limbs and the knowledge of all sciences may be on one’s lips; one may possess the poetic gift and may compose fine prose and poetry; yet if one’s mind be not centred upon the lotus feet of the Guru, what then, what then, what then?

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विदेशेषु मान्यः स्वदेशेषु धन्यः सदाचारवृत्तेषु मत्तो न चान्यः
मनश्र्चेन लग्नं गुरोरङ्घ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ॥4॥

videśeṣu mānyaḥ svadeśeṣu dhanyaḥ
sadācāravṛtteṣu matto na cānyaḥ
gurorańghripadme ḿanaścenna lagnaḿ
tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ

Translation: “I am honoured in other lands and I am prosperous in my homeland; in the paths of righteous conduct there is none who surpasses me”, thus one may think; yet if one’s mind be not centred upon the lotus feet of the Guru, what then, what then, what then?

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यशो मे गतं दिक्षु दानप्रतापा जगद्वस्तु सर्वं करे यत्प्रसादात्
मनश्र्चेन लग्नं गुरोरङ्घ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ॥6॥

yaśo me gataḿ dikṣu dānaptratāpāj-
jagadvastu sarvaḿ kare yatprasādāt
gurorańghripadme ḿanaścenna lagnaḿ
tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ tataḥ kiḿ

Translation: “My repute has travelled in all directions through my philanthropy and prowess; all the things of this world are in my hands as rewards for my virtues”, yet if one’s mind be not centred upon the lotus feet of the Guru, what then, what then, what then?

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In which Shree Adi Shankarachrya says -:

Even if one gains very good reputation and becomes renowned and even one gets rich in wealth , even one is master in Vedas ,Shastras & poetry , even one is honoured in other lands as well as his homeland and nobody can surpasses one. There is no use of this all , unless one took a Guru and bowdown to lotus feet of Guru.

Here what Shankaracharya mean is that there is no use of all this Vidya unless once mind is devoted to a Guru or without a physical Guru.

what then, what then, what then? ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं?

It does not shines ultimately.

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The Svetasvatara Upanishad says about your question -:

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिर्यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्था प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन: ॥6.23॥

yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau /  tasyaite kathitā hy
arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ // 6.23 // 

If these truths have been told to a high-minded person who feels the highest devotion for God and for his guru as for God, and then they will surely shine forth as inner experiences - then, indeed, they will shine forth.

The Upanishad teachings taught by a Guru bear fruit only for those aspirants who cherish devotion to the Lord and the teacher. It is God who teaches the disciple through an illumined human teacher.

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There is a story of Satyakama Jabala in Chhandogya Upanishad Part IV Chapter 9: Instruction by the Teacher where Satyakama says following to his Guru.

I have definitely heard from persons like your venerable self that the knowledge directly learnt from one's own teacher becomes most beneficial.' CH 4.9.3

Another Translation

4.9.1 Satyakama reached the teacher’s hermitage. The teacher said to him: "Satyakama!" "Revered Sir!" Satyakama replied.

4.9.2 The teacher said: "Beloved, you shine like one who knows Brahman. Who has taught you?" "Others than men," he replied. "But I wish, revered Sir, that you alone should teach me."

4.9.3 "For I have heard from persons like your good self that only knowledge which is learnt from a teacher [acharya] leads to the highest good." Then he [Gautama] taught him [Satyakama] the same knowledge. Nothing whatsoever was left out, yea, nothing whatsoever was left out.

Answer 3

Yes, without physical guru our knowledge can shine.

But, have physical guru is more beneficial for us.

Ekalavya had more skill than Arjuna, He learned skill without physical guru, as mentioned in "The Mahabharata" written by Veda Vyasa. So our skill can shine without physical guru.