3

The followers of Bhagavan Sri Chaitanya describes Brahman as the Aura or 'Anga-jyoti' of Sri Krishna.

But according to our scriptures, Brahman is beyond mind and to be realised by the Self losing the Triputi-veda.

So how come it is described as jyoti, which keeps the difference between the seer and the seen?

  • They say as spiritual qualities which is beyond ordinary mind I think... – Parabrahman Jyoti Mar 5 at 13:49
  • @AkshayS Brahman is beyond all types of mind and is realised only when mind is dead. – user17294 Mar 5 at 13:50
  • 1
    Partha, while thats correct. I am saying what they told... They say even Nirguna as one who is beyond 3 gunas of this physical and with spiritual qualities. But am with your side on this!!! Even in Uddhava Gita Krishna says, knower and known becomes one ! – Parabrahman Jyoti Mar 5 at 14:08
  • "So how come it is described as jyoti, which keeps the difference between the seer and the seen?" Means? – Krishna Shweta Mar 6 at 6:11
  • 2
    "But according to our scriptures, Brahman is beyond mind".. please add what are "our" scriptures. Our is not an exact word to define something on this site. Which path or interpretation that Brahman is beyond mind and self losing Triputi Veda? ; When you use a new term which is specific to some tradition, you should give definition so that every reader can understand. I see a user asked what is Truputi veda and you said it is used in books onAdvaita Vedanta. So, is this definition of Triputi Veda and "our" means Advaita Vedanta. Right? – Sarvabhouma Mar 7 at 6:40
3

In addition to @KrishnaShweta 's answer, I would like to add the following verse spoken by Krishna from the Harivamsa Purana which Gaudiya Vaishnavas use to show impersonal Brahman as the "Anga Jyoti" of Krishna:

tat param paramam brahma sarvam vibhajate jagat mamaiva tad ghanam tejo jnatum arhasi bharata

English Translation: That Supreme Brahman illuminates the whole universe. You should know that the condensed light belongs to Me. (Harivamsa Purana, Vishnu Parva, Chapter 114, Verse 12)

  • 1
    I accepted this answer because it does not rely on anybody's interpretation and conveys the meaning clearly.Thanks. – user17294 Mar 17 at 17:35
4

Gaudiya vaishnavas consider Krishna to be superior than Brahman. It is believed so based on Bhagavad geeta.

There are two verses (I found only two, there could be other verses) in which Krishna said He is beyond Brahman.

  1. brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
    śāśvatasya ca dharmasya sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
    Meaning: And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. (Bg-14.27)

In the above verse Krishna said He is the basis of impersonal brahman.

From the room conversation with Prabhupada,

Ashok Chugani: Swāmījī, may I ask one question which I had much discussion with your śiṣya here. Brahman, the sort of, what we in Hindu philosophy consider as the ultimate Godhead...

Prabhupāda: No.

Ashok Chugani: Brahman you consider Kṛṣṇa. But He is, of course... He was incarnate. He was one of the avatāras.

Prabhupāda: That is your opinion. [laughter] That is not...

Ashok Chugani: That is our point which I want to clarify.

Prabhupāda: You have to take the śāstra, authority.

Ashok Chugani: Does not Gītā say...

Prabhupāda: Brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭhā. Read Bhagavad-gītā. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?

Ashok Chugani: Yes, I...

Prabhupāda: Did you not read this?

Ashok Chugani: Well, that's what I want to clarify.

Prabhupāda: [to devotee:] Find out this.

Trivikrama: 14.26.

Prabhupāda: Read that.

Ashok Chugani: I am... This, even on the Eighth Chapter you will find.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā. Read. Just here.

Girirāja: brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham amṛtasyāvyayasya ca śāśvatasya ca dharmasya sukhasyaikāntikasya ca [Bg. 14.27]

Prabhupāda: So He is the pratiṣṭhā. Just like in this room there is illumination. The illumination is spread all over the room. [Hindi---"Please hear"] So the illumination is important or the light is important? What is important?

Ashok Chugani: The original light, source of the light. So isn't Brahman the source of the light?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand. If the... Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is important or the sun is important?

Ashok Chugani: The original sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination, or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. You see practical example and learn here in the śāstra, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], personally says. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Kṛṣṇa and śāstra, that is a different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Your eyes should be through the śāstra, not by manufacturing ideas. So śāstras says this:

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi- koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.40]

This is śāstra, Brahma-saṁhitā, that "This brahma-jyotir is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda." So the rays of Govinda is not so important as Govinda is important. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. And Govinda personally says, ahaṁ sarvasya... Sarvasya means everything, including Brahman.

Ashok Chugani: [mis-hears what Prabhupāda is saying as Brahmā] Brahman. With all due respect, I was talking of Brahman.

Prabhupāda: I am speaking of Brahman. Brahman means..., Brahman means this brahma-jyotir. You mean that. Yes, I am speaking that. This brahma-jyotir...

Ashok Chugani: Īśvara is different from Brahman?

Prabhupāda: Īśvara everyone. But īśvara-parama is Kṛṣṇa.

The second verse is,

  1. yasmāt kṣaram atīto ’ham akṣarād api cottamaḥ
    ato ’smi loke vede ca prathitaḥ puruṣottamaḥ
    Meaning: Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person. (BG-15.18)

Commentary by Baladeva Vidya Bhushana, a gaudiya vaishnavacharya,

Explaining the name purusottama, the Lord speaks of His own true nature. Uttama here means most excellent. Loke here refers to the scriptures written by men. Loka means that whoch reveals the meaning of the vedas. He is praised (in the loke) and the vedas. In the vedas it is said:
The atma, the object of mercy, raising from its body, attains the supreme light, the supreme person and manifests his natural form. chandogya upanishad 8.12.3
That supreme light attained by mercy is the Paramatma. In the scriptures written by men, he is also praised as the supreme person.

So, Krishna is beyond the liberated souls or infallibles which is referred as "brahman" by advaita.

  • @Thanks for your answer. 'Brahmano' can mean 'of SAGUNA-Brahma' also. And please go through the commentaries of Sankara and Madhusudan Saraswati as we are here considering the Nirguna Brahman to be attainrd by the Triputi-Veda. – user17294 Mar 7 at 7:27
  • @Partha Baladeva also considers Brahman to be Saguna and writes commentary according to that perspective where Jiva is distinct from Brahman – Krishna Shweta Mar 7 at 7:54
  • @Partha I don't understand why are you comparing different philosophies. I have explained in a great detail for why they call brahman as Krishna's ray. – Krishna Shweta Mar 8 at 8:37
  • 1
    @AkshayS yes. The problem ofttimes is because of either ignorance or wrong intentions of the translators.:) – user17294 Mar 25 at 11:17
  • 1
    @AkshayS yes absolutely. I therefore prefer to hear from the saints always and never from the preachers of the doctrines:) – user17294 Mar 25 at 11:35

You must log in to answer this question.