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I would like to know the difference between Ishwara and Brahman. If Ishwara is saguna rupa of Brahman then is it real or maya?

  • Ishwara = brahman with excellent limiting adjuncts like omniscience, omnipotence etc. Ishwara is ultimately unreal. – Lazy Lubber Mar 7 at 13:03
  • @LazyLubber if Ishwara is Brahman( even though to a limit),how can Ishwara be unreal if Brahman is real? – RishX Mar 7 at 14:41
  • The upAdhis/limiting adjuncts are unreal. So Ishwaratva is unreal. But the essence of Ishwara is brahman, which is real. – Lazy Lubber Mar 7 at 14:57
  • @LazyLubber u mean the qualities of omniscience and omnipotence are unreal? – RishX Mar 7 at 15:01
  • Exactly. The qualities of omniscience etc are unreal. Brahman is free from all qualities. – Lazy Lubber Mar 7 at 15:02
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Here is the answer directly from Sri Shankara's commentary on the Brihadaranyaka upanishad -

https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-brihadaranyaka-upanishad/d/doc118359.html

Therefore the unconditioned Self, being beyond speech and mind, undifferentiated and one, is designated as ‘Not this, not this’; when It has the limiting adjuncts of the body[9] and organs, which are characterised by ignorance, desire and work, It is called the transmigrating individual self; and when the Self has the limiting adjunct of the power of (Māyā manifesting through) eternal and unlimited knowledge, It is called the Internal Ruler and īśvara. The same Self as by nature transcendent, absolute and pure, is called the Immutable and Supreme Self.

  • I agree with this answer. But how can be Ishwara be unreal if It is equivalent to Brahman/Atma? – RishX Mar 7 at 14:43
  • When we say Ishwara is unreal, it means the limiting adjuncts are unreal. The essence of Ishwara is brahman, which is real. – Lazy Lubber Mar 7 at 15:01
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In the real or Paramarthika sense, only Brahman exists which is one with Atman.Brahman is realised when there is no difference between jnana, jnata and jneya.This is called Triputi-Veda. There is no sense of I, the World and Brahman separately. This stage is attained when the mind dissolves completely in Brahman.

But so long as there is the feeling of 'I', there is some sense of the existence of the world and the controller of the world. Ishvara is the controller of the world, He/She is the Saguna Rupa of Brahman ie Brahman perceived through the veil of Maya (Creation-Preservance-Destruction are the activities of the three gunas :Rajas-Sattva-Tamas and hence of Maya as Maya is Trigunatmika).

So long as the sense of a separate 'I' is real, Ishvara is also real. Only when there is no longer a separate identity of 'I', Brahman alone exists. That is the Paramarthika stage,There is no existence of the world and so no existence of the controller of the world or Ishvara as separate from the Self.

So Ishvara is always existing except at the Nirvikalpa-samadhi state.

Reference: Vivekanander Vedanta-chinta, Dinesh Chandra Bhattacharya Sastri, RMIC, Kolkata.

  • Your answer is good ...but you should have quoted from the sources you have named. – RishX Mar 7 at 14:40
  • @Rishx thanks.The Q is yours and but ans is mine.So pl leave the right to quote or unquote to me:) – user17294 Mar 7 at 14:47
  • well that's one way to put that u cant find quotations...regardless thanks for ur answer :) – RishX Mar 7 at 14:57
  • i haven't read Kathamrta..I ve started reading it along with Leelaprasanga as u adviced me to.. – RishX Mar 7 at 14:59
  • The answer on veer bhava was due to little research I did..I have been reading Leelaprasanga for a while now..Will read Kathamrta in the future. – RishX Mar 7 at 15:13

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