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So I think I get more or less the importance of doing good deeds without attaching sense of doership - you don't accumulate karma, ego is controlled etc.

But what about bad deeds. What do scriptures say if I do a bad deed without doership? Or is that not even possible?

Will be most helpful if someone can point out examples of such deeds in scriptures. Or specify where in scriptures it says such deeds are not possible

  • Generally, those who are without the sense of doership are supposed to be spiritually advanced, so they dont do things contrary to dharma. That said, some one under the influence of drugs might be able to do bad things without a sense of doership. – user16581 Nov 6 '19 at 14:21
  • We're complicating things too much. Every deed is done with sense of doership. Without that it's not possible to do anything. It's like trying to 'speak before thinking' - literally impossible because thought comes first. Anyways, there are different results for the same action. And you can aspire to any of those results. Depending on what you desire, your spiritual level is high or down. e.g. if you give money to a beggar, you'll get punya. if you kick a beggar, you'll get papa. Think of it as credit and debit. Both of them WILL be enforced by Bhagavan... – ram Nov 6 '19 at 15:58
  • After they are enforced, you can again get punya or papa. And the results of THOSE will again be enforced. So on, endlessly, birth after birth, death after death. So far so good? Now, the question comes, hmm.. i'm bored of this repetition. What if I want to stop it and get out of the cycle ? Well, it's very simple - stop accumulating punya & papa. Stop donating and stop kicking. Great, can I get out of the cycle ? Not so fast.. because your previous donation and previous kicks are still in balance. Until they are enforced, you can't leave. Oh.. so I gotta wait until my balance is zero? Yep. – ram Nov 6 '19 at 16:01
  • Alright, how long with the clearance take ? Depends on how much balance you have. Well, it might be really large. Yes, it might. So, what am i supposed to do until it gets cleared. Well.. nothing. If you do any good or bad deed, you're going to add to your balance and extend your stay. Ohh.. I don't wanna do that. Well, you don't have a choice. Really, no choice ? Well, actually, there is a little secret. Great, what is it ? Alright, remember how all this time, you donated and enjoyed its results, and kicked and suffered the results. What if I told you, you do either and not face consequences? – ram Nov 6 '19 at 16:04
  • Wow.. is that possible? Won't Bhagavan enforce all punya & papa ?If a man doesn't get salary for his work, or thief doesn't get punished for his crime, the world will collapse in 2 days, right? True, it will. But that's not what Bhagavan is gonna do. He is going to continue to enforce them, whether you want them or not.. But, But.. Hang on, we're close. Remember how after your first donation and your first kicking, you got your first reward and your first punishment ? End of story right ? Now, stop and think. What made you donate and kick the SECOND time ? and you got THOSE results. – ram Nov 6 '19 at 16:08
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That depends on how you define bad deeds. If bad deed is done knowingly in your eyes that it is bad it might have a bad intention. And you get paap. When you do not have doership you simply do not see deeds as good or evil or bad. They are just deeds then. Your kartavya( if the situations actually demand that karma and to know that you need to be unbiased and see clearly from all P.O.V.s). In that case you do not accumulate karma. In the latter case your karma might be perceived as bad but you do not get paap. But you have to be very cautious no doership or nishkaam karma can only come to you if you understand the concept very deeply and are truly unbiased and able to see clearly.

  • So you are saying it is possible to do bad deeds without sense of ownership? When you say situations demand kartavya - then by default it means I have to do karma as per Dharma which means I can only do good deeds @sangita saxena – Carmen sandiego Nov 7 '19 at 16:59
  • @Carmensandiego I think Sangita is saying that good & bad are illusory so the question only makes sense when participating in this illusion – Rubellite Yakṣī Nov 14 '19 at 2:01
  • @Carmen sandiego No, this does not mean you can only do good deeds. No doership and nishkaam karma will make you go into practicing karma yoga where your karma will not remain good or bad or evil karma, they will become karma and this karma will not give you any paap or punya. Try discovering what nishkaam karma is regularly until you truly discover it. Start by searching the term on various sites. – Sangita Saxena Nov 22 '19 at 15:45
  • @Carmen sandiego Being mindful is very important to achieve no doership. Vipassana can be a good start. – Sangita Saxena Nov 22 '19 at 16:10
  • @Sangita Saxena - Yes, I understand Nishkama karma. So my question is can any act under Nishkama karma be considered bad in the eyes of others. An example would help – Carmen sandiego Nov 23 '19 at 8:50

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