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I always read and listened that Rama was avatar of Vishnu, But I was listening to RamCharitManas katha by Shri Prembhushan Maharaj.During the katha he said , according to Puranas Rama was avatar of Brahm not vishnu, Maharaj is telling that Bharata is Vishnu avatar and Rama is avatar of Brahm, going on saying that all the TV serials showing Rama as avatar of Vishnu were wrong. I never heard or read this before, I know he is very famous and learned in scriptures.

Here is link of Ram katha where he says Rama was Brahm avatar not Vishnu https://youtu.be/JSpRPFAL3Pw?t=1605

Can anyone please clear, Whether Rama was Vishnu or Brahm avatar,if you could add references that would be very helpful?

  • As per Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata, Rama was an incarnation of Vishnu. If nobody else provides references, then I will. – I will close your question Nov 22 at 8:47
  • @LazyLubber yes I know as per Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata, Rama was an incarnation of Vishnu, But I don't understand why in katha maharaj says he is incarnation of bharma, He is very well known katha vachak, what I don't understand is why is says so, can you please check the link in question if it helps. – Shubham Devgan Nov 22 at 9:01
  • Ok, I will check later. I am in office now. Cant check here. – I will close your question Nov 22 at 9:08
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    The Kathavachak in video might hv assumed Vishnu as Brahmn so in that sence Rama is an incarnation of Brahmn. The bigger issue is that video says, Bharat is Vishnu avtar but he is Vishnu's Shanka's avtar actually. – Lakhi Nov 24 at 1:57
  • Brahman is the substratum of existence which could be considered as even above the three Gods. HE is THAT. I guess thats what Rama was referred to. – Sai Baikampadi Nov 25 at 4:09
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He said brahm(ब्रह्म) and not brahmA(ब्रह्मा). There is a difference. Lord Vishnu is considered as brahm; so it is perfectly fine to refer him as.

As per the definition of brahm:

Brahm or Brahman is "the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world", which "cannot be exactly defined". It has been described in Sanskrit as Sat-cit-ānanda[1] and as the highest reality, the final element in a dialectical process which cannot be eliminated or annihilated or Para Brahman,or in various combinations of these qualities depending on the philosophical school. According to Advaita, a liberated human being (jivanmukta) has realized Brahman as his or her own true self.

In Vaishnavism, Lord Vishnu is considered as Brahm.

He is definitely avatar of Vishnu, Please refer this answer for reference: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/27809/647

  • I think he meant more than what he said, is there a deeper meaning of his statement? – Shubham Devgan Nov 22 at 11:06
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    from what I have read , aren't Bharma, vishnu, mahesh forms of Brahm? – Shubham Devgan Nov 22 at 11:43
  • As per Tantra(Kashmiri Shaivism), Everything is Brahman. In Bhagwat Gita as Well, Krishna told the same. @ShubhamDevgan – TheLittleNaruto Nov 22 at 12:05
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    @TheLittleNaruto Please check OP's link from 26 min onwards. Maharaj is telling that Bharata is Vishnu avatar and Rama is avatar of Brahma. He also says about TV channels showing Rama as Vishnu avatar (which he seems to disagree with). – I will close your question Nov 22 at 13:29
  • yes @LazyLubber that's exactly what I'm asking about. – Shubham Devgan Nov 22 at 13:40
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He said Brahm, not Brahma. The word Br(A)hm is a root of words like Brahmin, Brahma, Brahmcharya which means (A(first letter of Sanskrit)/Aham/I am) i.e. creation, beginning, Self and alone.

The trinity of Br(A)ma, Vishn(U) and (M)ahesh is the manifested triguna Maya Prakriti who is the beginning, middle and end of this creation. A+U+M is also called AUM/OM(Shabd Brahman).

In the beginning this was Self alone, in the shape of a person (puruṣa). He looking around saw nothing but his Self (Atman). He first said, "This is I/Aham", therefore he became I/Aham by name. — Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.1

Eko Ham Bahu Syam - (I am One, let me be many) - Vedas

bahu syam prajayeyeti . sa tapo.atapyata . sa tapastaptva ida{\m+} sarvamasrijata . yadidam ki~ncha . tatsrishtva tadevanupravishat.h . tadanupravishya . sachcha tyachchabhavat.h niruktam chaniruktam cha . nilayanam chanilayanam cha vij~nanam chavij~nanam cha . satyam chanritam cha satyamabhavat.h -

He (the Supreme Self) desired: “May I be many, may I be born. He performed austerities. Having performed austerities, He created all this— whatever there is. Having created all this, He entered into it. Having entered into it, He became both the manifested and the unmanifested, both the defined and undefined, both the supported and unsupported, the intelligent and the non— intelligent, both the real and the unreal. The Satya (the True) became all this: whatever there is. Therefore (the wise) call It (Brahman) the True. Taittiriya-Upanishad Chapter 2

In the beginning in Brahman, there was a Spandana or vibration with Om(Shabd Brahman) before the world was projected. This is the Sankalpa of Brahman. He thought or willed: "Ekoham Bahu Syam: I am one; may I become many". Then the whole world was projected.

Braham simply means Br+Aham

Sanskrit Brahman (an n-stem, nominative bráhmā) from a root bṛh- "to swell, expand, grow, enlarge" and Aham means I. Hence Braham is the soul(real I) of all beings.

How is the Visvarupa of Lord Shiva different from the Visvarupa of Lord Krishna?

And Rama, Krishna etc., are avatars of Lord Vishn(U), who has the task of maintaining Dharma on the earth.

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There are 3 options, in my view.

Option-1 - Follow the popular version.

As per 16th Sarga of Valmiki Ramayana, Sri Rama is an incarnation of Vishnu.

उपायः को वधे तस्य राक्षसाधिपतेः सुराः | यमहं तं समास्थाय निहन्यामृषिकण्टकम् || १-१६-२

"What is the idea to eliminate that demon's chief Ravana, oh, gods, adopting which strategy I will have to eliminate that thorn in the side of sages?" Thus Vishnu asked the gods.

एवमुक्ताः सुराः सर्वे प्रत्यूचुर्विष्णुमव्ययम् | मानुषं रूपमास्थाय रावणं जहि संयुगे || १-१६-३

Asked thus all the gods said to that sempiternal Vishnu, "on assuming a human form, eliminate Ravana in a war."

इत्येतद्वचनं श्रुत्वा सुराणां विष्णुरात्मवान् | पितरं रोचयामास तदा दशरथं नृपम् || १-१६-८

On hearing that speech of gods said that way, he that kind-hearted Vishnu then chose Dasharatha as his father in human world.


Option -2 Going by the words of pravachanakarta

I think that pravachanakarta (one who gives spiritual discourse) in the video clip, was referring to Adhyatma Ramayana.

The paras 32-33 in page 6, it was mentioned as follows:

Sita said :"Know Rama to be Supreme Brahmana.

The para 34 says

Know me to be the Primeval Prakriti

So it is BRAHMAN, that took the incarnation of Sri Rama.


Option -3 - General

All Human beings are the children of the Almighty. So in that way also Sri Rama is the incarnation of the Almighty.

  • In the link that you gave, Chapter 2, pages 20-22 in pdf file, mention that Vishnu took incarnation as Rama. But Maharaj seems to diagree that Rama is Vishnu's incarnation. – I will close your question Nov 22 at 15:09
  • Yes I had checked up subsequent pages also. He might have adopted the earlier one. @Lazy Lubber – srimannarayana k v Nov 22 at 15:30
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    In Ramayana, Vishnu and Brahman are synonymous. – I will close your question Nov 22 at 15:31
  • Yes, if viewed from vedic perspective. However, not from incarnation perspective @Lazy Lubber – srimannarayana k v Nov 22 at 15:39
  • but in Video he says, Bharat was incarnation of vishnu. – Shubham Devgan Nov 25 at 11:01
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If he called Rama as an incarnation of Brahma there is nothin wrong because Narayan is also known as supreme Brahma. Narayan Upanishad chapter 2

Narayana is eternal. Narayana is Brahma. Narayana is the universe. Narayana is Indra. Narayana is time. Narayana is the primary directions. Narayana is the secondary directions. Narayana is above. Narayana is below. Narayana is within and without. Narayana is everything, whatever was and whatever will be. Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one without a second, free of all impurity, untouched by matter, liberated, pure, beyond the power of material words to describe. One who understands Him in this way becomes like Lord Visnu. He becomes like Lord Visnu. This is the crown of the Yajur Veda.

Still if you want any proof than there are many verses from puranas and even ramayana that says this. But I knew only one verse of Garud purana

In his eighteenth incarnation he manifested himself as Sri Ram.

here:-https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-garuda-purana/d/doc59291.html

Reading this shloka of ramayana it will be clear that the Brahma means vishnu. Valmiki ramayana yudha Kanda sarga 117

भवान्नारायणो देवः श्रीमांश्चक्रायुधः प्रभुः || एकशृङ्गो वराहस्त्वं भूतभव्यसपत्नजित् |

"You are the Lord Narayana himself the glorious god, who wields the discus. You are the Divine Boar with a single tusk, the conqueror of your past and future enemies.

"अक्षरं ब्रह्म सत्यं च मध्ये चान्ते च राघव || लोकानां त्वं परो धर्मो विष्वक्सेनश्चतुर्भजः |

"You are Brahma, the imperishable, the Truth abiding in the middle as well as at the end of the universe. You are the supreme righteousness of people, whose powers go everywhere. You are the four-armed." http://valmikiramayan.net/utf8/yuddha/sarga117/yuddha_117_frame.htm

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