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In other words, on what ‘basis’ the result for your actions are determined. I have seen very many references to how we should live our life so we accumulate Good Karma etc. in Vedic and non- Vedic sources like Sathyam Vadha, Dharmam Chara etc. I have also seen that we should not depend on the result of our actions and in fact offer that itself to Brahman in Gita.

However, I have not seen any direct reference on the basis of Karma phala determination in any source very clearly. There are some hints. I also know divisions of Karma (Sanchitha, Prarabda etc.) and what accumulates, what doesn’t, and what we bring into when we are born and what we carry forth when we leave etc. as well as Nitya Karma. But not very clear on how Karma phalam is determined.

Any scriptural references as to how this is determined would help. Without proper and clear definition, and grey areas, there are loopholes that entities could make use of for justifying immoral, unethical and overall incorrect actions correct?

Any proper scriptural references appreciated. Older the better.

My question is different from Origin of Karma and such references from scriptures.

For e.g Who decides for e.g "being high up in heaven, an eternity with Surya, eternal life, a long life, being invited first, becoming chief of your village, a horse, a bullock, gold, food, a bride, the light of heaven, the Universe" AS RESULTS for your good karma of "giving Dakshina to the Brahmanas performing your Yagna". What is the Justification for such a result assignment and not something else?

More generally, What MUST be the Scriptural BASIS of such RESULT assignment for Good OR Bad Karma? Whoever may be the decider.

How am I to find out if this is in Rig Veda that is not Tampered by Vyasa's Sishya for e.g? Where are the cross references? If you leave the result vague and ad-hoc instead of a Sound scriptural basis then the adoption of Good Karma is Vague too correct? That is the motivation behind this question.

  • youtube.com/watch?v=e4YC5PTV7q4 Garbha Geeta discussion between Krishna-Arjuna on various kind of good-bad actions and their fruits, but its in Hindi,cant find english version.But eventual goal is Nishkama Karma Yoga or fruitless actions of Godhead. "Geeta 3.22 There is no duty for me to do in all the three worlds, O Parth, nor do I have anything to gain or attain.Yet, I am engaged in prescribed duties.As ignorant people perform their duties with attachment to the results,O scion of Bharat,so should the wise act without attachment, for the sake of leading people on the right path." – user20089 Mar 24 at 15:53
  • Does this answer your question? Origin of the Law of Karma – sv. Mar 24 at 18:26
  • Unfortunately not...I have modified my question to be more clearer – Gopal Anantharaman Mar 24 at 20:18
  • A question like this should be receiving more upvotes than it has – iruvar Mar 25 at 2:11
  • Good question. Formatted for increasing the readability. – srimannarayana k v Mar 25 at 2:25
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I did a search and research myself and arrived at the Answer. Yes. This is Mentioned in the Vedas.

Rtam cha satyam chAbhidhdAt (1), tapaso adhyajAyata (2)

Truth was born and the Law of Truth (1), From the kindled fire of Energy of Consciousness. Rig Veda 10.190.1

satyam brihat rtam ugram, dikshA tapo brahma yajnah, prithivi dhArayanti ||

The Truth (satyam), the Vast (brihat) and the Truth-in-movement (rtam), strength (ugram), initiation, askesis, mantra (brahma) and Yajna- These uphold the Earth. Atharva Veda 12.1.1

See a nice explanation here What is the concept of ritam as per the vedas?

Any Basis for Karma Result Assignment MUST be based on the Aforesaid Axioms from Vedas. That is Truth Satyam and Rtam

When you introduce something as Law, You automatically divide Sentience into the followers of a Law and non-followers of a Law. The Result of their following or non-following of a Law Must be based on how the Law of Truth (Rtam) is affected at the highest level i.e at the kindled fire of Energy of Consciousness based on their actions.

Now, you have to Pardon some detour in Philosophy to understand the Laws of Truth.

Let's take the Sat and Chid part. 'Sat' is the Truth. 'Chid' is Existence. Why do they say they are the Same? Let's see. If something does not exist, then it is falsehood. There cannot be something called falsehood at all. It's just that the symbols we use to define the concept of falsehood as a negation of Truth. If you say Falsehood exists independently, then you unwittingly, for explanation purposes, you give Truth to some 'concept' called 'Falsehood' using the English letters in this case for understanding purposes. In that action itself, you HAVE to use some TRUTH. In this case, we need symbols, i.e the truth in the meaning expressed by those symbols. Symbols need a background like Space ' '. Or Sound needs a background like Silence. Your Actions using your organs( if they exist) either can be correct or incorrect but they are all Carved out of the Higher level 'Basis' - like symbols in the above e.g, like Silence, Inaction, Space, etc. Now, Without the Existence of such a background can anything exist? That statement MUST be true - i.e That the Background MUST Exist without that symbols or actions can't be carved out as well. Now you can create form from the formless, sound from silence, etc. That action - i.e. the act of creating a form or sound carries with it meaning. So using symbols or actions or sounds we also give 'meaning' to express something. What is the First-Ever 'symbol' and 'sound' or 'Gamma Ray' or 'different thingy' that came out of the Background or the 'Basis' (and we haven't asked that yet, but what the heck is the Background :-))? And why did that become different? And finally, What did that mean, I mean what was the Meaning of that first separation? And what are all the Meaning structures of subsequent separation?

With this understanding, Let's annotate Bible, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word(Separated Entity - SE), and the Word was with God (SE + Basis), and the Word was God (Meaning)"

Let's annotate Chandogya 1.1.1, 1.1.2 and 2.23 "Om is Brahman(Carved Sound = Om, meaning = Basis) and "Om is all this [observed world](Carved out part of Sound)"

"The earth is the essence of all things, living or non-living; water is the essence of the earth; plants are the essence of water; human beings are the essence of plants; speech is the essence of human beings; the Ṛg Veda is the essence of speech; the Sāma Veda is the essence of the Ṛg Veda, and the udhītha is the essence of the Sāma Veda" (Meaning structure leading up to Sama Veda up to OM)

" OM or Udgitha is Sung ( Carving out from Silence)"

So Let's answer.

And why did that become different? ASAT or Background wanted to know what is itself!

What did that mean, I mean what was the Meaning of that first separation? Background Exists.

And what are all the Meaning structures of subsequent separation? The Universe, ... , world and other thingies and non-thingies like Gamma-ray, etc. you and me our actions.

Why is this Maya? Let's see...Since you are carved out of the Background, you must be background too...The background itself split into two(Advaita), But how did that split? split using what - I mean the shapes or sounds or thingies form only if there is a distinction from the background( Maybe kind of Dvaita...) - oops - But, wait a minute, distinction to whom - I mean which Sentience? The one that can see using light? the one who hears or feels? Or All of those like in an animal or Human...Those Sentience form a tree leading up to the root sentient entity the Supreme consciousness. OK. That required a distinction when you carve out...All Carvings for the Supreme Consciousness(Brahman) to realize 'it's own' Basis - The Nirguna Parabrahman(NPB) :-). Again the same thing said for meaning and understanding etc. i.e understanding for Whom, Makes sense for whom, etc.? So Finally, this should all mean well and make sense to the first carved out Sentient entity!

OK. We detoured a bit too far but we arrived at Energy(1) of Consciousness(Root), which again came from NPB. Good, that was the point.

Now, What must the resulting assignment of Karma of Carved out of actions of Sentient Maya-ic entities be based out of? Remember, we are talking Karma of All Sentience up-to-the root! Ok. Pause and think about it... Alright. Let's define the Basis of Result assignment of Karma.

I strongly think and propose that this Must be based out of the Law of the following Truths!

1) Increasing the understanding of Root consciousness about the Basis(NPB) ( Awareness).

2) Or Increasing the Meaning formation for Root consciousness about the Basis(NPB) ( Symbol and Thingie Carving - Creation) leading up-to (1).

3) Removing of unwanted Carved out thingies/sentience as and when meaning becomes well understood by the Root consciousness ( Destruction )

4) Root consciousness and it's sentience tree down may choose to keep/delete any section of its sentience tree for (1,2 or 3) again.

5) NPB intervention for re-definition of anything else...

Of course, lower level sentience does not know the Root, so they follow their superior node up the tree! Now, we see room for errors if the basis of result assignment is undefined or poorly defined for Karma.

So, We have to ponder our purpose and contribute in some way towards the ulterior motives above - i.e Within our Carved out Context( Earth, etc.). There are entities at work so Good Karmaphalam gives 'Eternity with Sun' again possibly to fulfill (1) above in Sun's own way and is up-to Sun to define that. As and when Bad Karma accumulates, understand that (3) is at work...and (4) of course is obvious... Now, (5) Only Root can realize That it is NPB intervention no sentient below realizes usually...

The rest of the Karmaphalam determination is based on New Carve-outs and their associated meaning...

Let’s deal with One example- The most important - in my perspective.

Why should you be or attempt to be Truthful in your action and words?

Because you must Exist for You to do or say anything.

And that must be A True statement.

Without your existence being True or Truthful, you can neither speak a lie or truth or be Truthful in your actions or not!

But for you to exist Now, a whole lot of True things such as the existence of earth within Galaxy, etc. the existence of countries, the existence of place you live in, the existence of home in your place, etc. etc. , the existence of your parents, etc. All of them Must be Truthful in that chain. Any break in the chain and that would affect adversely all the true things that relied on that! So by being truthful you are indirectly aligning with the higher level Truths and at least remembering and acknowledging the vast stretches of Truth above. Now, let’s say for argument sake that Root consciousness picks one Soul from Earth and decides for fun sake that, if he is Truthful, then the extent of his Truthfulness will be applied to the Truth in the existence of wealth for his inheriting Son. If you are 90% truthful your Son gets 90% of wealth accumulated by you. Hey, he is root he can make sure that happens. Note, he is also learning different ways of doing things at a higher level and indirectly this about NPB. Also being a devil that he is :-) he could also apply your Truth behavior in your life - the percentage of truthfulness- to the Existence of Earth’s life itself, After you are gone, the percentage of lies you have spoken and untruthful actions in your life will decide what survives and what doesn’t survive, on earth. You never know!

And Thus, Earth could be upheld by Truth spoken by you!

Now to be fair, if instead of just choosing you he could look at the overall population of earth and decide, ok if 90% of the population speaks and does things truthfully then 90% Earth will survive after they are gone, etc. Who knows? But Vedas tells us that Earth is upheld by Truth!

So Be truthful!

Root consciousness could also have decided that I give 10 generations for a species to realize the Truth- that the statement Earth must exist is True for them to be alive and kicking. Say, Not, all of them need to realize. Say, just one being. If not. Then they don’t deserve to exist any longer. And we can see things to that effect. Where are the Dinosaurs today :-)?

So you can see what the ‘Butterfly effect’ of your Karma Results in the Karma Phalam of other entities!

I could say the same thing for Dharmam Charah. Remember, falsehood cannot have the existence of its own. And, hence truth is greater!

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    From the length of this answer I can tell you've made an effort at explaining yourself but frankly, speaking for myself, this went way over my head – Vidyut Mar 28 at 4:26
  • @Vidyut time to see "if periodic coffee consumption elevates a person to understand truths that are required to be understood" :-) – Gopal Anantharaman Mar 30 at 1:06

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