As per this QnA, anyone killed by the Supreme Lord achieves Moksha. Then why is it that the cursed Jīvātman of Jaya & Vijaya (the door keepers of God Vishnu's Vaikuntha) had to be re-born not once, twice, but thrice (that too, as far as I can guess, it's is for this Kalpa only)?

Even, if we factor-in the fact about the fulfillment of the curse, then too, the events might be repeating almost with the same basic details in some next Kalpas. Moreover, if we say that the events although repeat in a same manner, however, the material body will still remain same in all cycles but the jeevataman that's inside being a different-new one. By that logic, considering that the door-keepers are Nitya Suris (as per this source), and hence, their jivataman cannot change as per definition. So even after being re-born and killed by the Supreme Lord in some Kalpa cycle, they'll be re-born as demons in next cycles. So, that kind of becomes a paradox, as per my understanding. They're effectively not achieving Moksha (even after getting slayed by the Supreme Lord) but are re-born in this sāṃsārika world, again and again.

In that sense, both, Jaya & Vijaya will be re-born as demons afresh, and killed by the Supreme Lord in his various incarnations, yet again and again, in a never ending eternal kāla-chakra cycle? Same arguments may be extended to the case of Kālanemi as well, who was killed by Lord Vishnu & reborn again as Kaṃsa.

So, dosen't that invalidates the very idea portrayed in the verses of Srimad Bhagvatam?

Furthermore, using the above case, can one, also conclude that thus, the state of Moksha is not a permanent state but is rather, unequivocally a subject to be changed with new days of Brahma i.e., the Kalpas, i.e., Moksha may last only for a Kalpa or a couple of Kalpas or maybe in some cases some Mahakalpas, but not permanent?


The following questions, as I also have linked them in my present question, are used as arguments to build up on my argument regarding Moksha via the Supreme God, they in no way clarify my doubt, they are just to clarify the doubts of the readers (including me), so a better answer maybe begotten. THESE QUESTIONS ARE MY ARGUMENTS ITSELF AND NOT WHAT I'M ACTUALLY ASKING.

  1. Do same events repeat in every Yuga?
  2. Does "Free Will" really exist, even if universe repeats itself in perfect pattern?
  3. Does following line states Brahma repeats same incidents everyday?
  4. Is Moksha a permanent state?
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    Very interesting observation. I believe that the Jaya Vijaya who were cursed belong to Karya Vaikuntha (Shvetadvipa), which is within out Brahmanda, and not Paramapadam, which is above all Brahmandas.
    – Surya
    Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 7:05
  • 1
    you've to also consider the fact that Sanakadi Rishis were visiting Vishnuloka, and Vaikuntha is not a place which you can visit whenever, but Shvetadvipa is. But yes, one has to check on the doorkeeper thing.
    – Surya
    Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 7:14
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    Moksha is permanent. Death at the hands of God does not mean one will get Moksha.
    – Pinakin
    Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 7:28
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    Putana didnt get any Curse to be born 4 times like the Gatekeepers. Still she also merged in Krishna. So anyone who gets killed or even hates Lord reaches Adobe of Vishnu says Bhagavata. Once they get moksha its permanent. I dont know if I could help you bro. Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 8:57
  • 1
    Nice Q..i too had similar doubt, didn't find any well known figure who got permanent moksha.. for well known figures we find their reincarnations instead of moksha.. wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/brahma-sutras/d/doc78300.html says that Moksha is not permanent until someone has a divine mission to complete..
    – YDS
    Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 10:25

3 Answers 3


The Moksha obtained by Vidvesa-Bhakti is permanent. It takes three births to attain moksha through this method because of the specifics of the curse. Also vidvesa-Bhakti is not applicable for ordinary men and is of academic interest only.

The first is the Bhagavata idea of Vidvesha-bhakti or communion through confrontation. Such a conception is not found in the Sutras of early Bhakti theoreticians, nor is it looked upon with favor even by later writers on Bhakti like Madhusudana and Rupa Goswami. All theoreticians consider that only absorption resulting from a sense of Anukulya (favorableness) in the object of love can be the genesis of devotion. It is not possible to have 'favorableness' in respect of a dreaded enemy with whom one is in confrontation. Besides, whatever the Bhagavata may say, it had no application in the life of ordinary men. In the Bhagavata narrative this attitude of confrontation is represented in the case of some Titanic souls like Hiranyakasipu, Ravana, etc. They were once servants of God, but due to their haughtiness they were cursed by some great sages that they would lose their heavenly status and become embodied in worlds of sin and strife. They were, however, to regain their status after spending three successive lives in hatred of, and in confrontation with God. In each of these births they were to be killed in battle by the Lord Incarnate, and that would purify them and restore them to their original condition.

Prologue of Srimad Bhagavata translated by Swami Tapasyananda

  • This does not resolve the apparent contradictions brought to light by OP. It is a mere restatement of the Srimad Bhagvata's stance, on the authority of the SB. Are there any commentaries which address the points raised by OP?
    – chhatra
    Commented Mar 23, 2021 at 18:27

The reason for this 'delayed' or 'deferred' Moksha for Jay and Vijay is actually a very interesting conundrum and I have found the resolution to this in only one scripture which is the Vishnu Puran.

Maitreya actually asks the very same question to Rishi Parashar wondering why the same being, in the forms of Hiranyakashipu and Ravan, though having been killed by the hands of the incarnations of Lord Vishnu, did not achieve instant deliverance but as Shishupala he was granted that salvation instantly.

I am sharing the relevant text below:

Maitreya said:— Most eminent of all who cultivate piety, I am curious to hear from you, and you are able to explain to me, how it happened that the same being who when killed by Viṣṇu as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Rāvaṇa obtained enjoyments which, though scarcely attainable by the immortals, were but temporary, should have been absorbed into the eternal Hari when slain by him in the person of Śiśupāla.

Parāśara said:— When the divine author of the creation, preservation, and destruction of the universe accomplished the death of Hiraṇyakaśipu, he assumed a body composed of the figures of a lion and a man, so that Hiraṇyakaśipu was not aware that his destroyer was Viṣṇu: although therefore the quality of purity, derived from exceeding merit, had been attained, yet his mind was perplexed by the predominance of the property of passion; and the consequence of that intermixture was, that he reaped, as the result of his death by the hands of Viṣṇu, only unlimited power and enjoyment upon earth, as Daśānana, the sovereign of the three spheres; he did not obtain absorption into the supreme spirit, that is without beginning or end, because his mind was not wholly dedicated to that sole object.

This is actually interesting since the Purana mentions that it was the death by the hands of the Lord that made Ravana attain the overlordship over the three worlds. Further it states:

So also Daśānana being entirely subject to the passion of love, and engrossed completely by the thoughts of Jānakī, could not comprehend that the son of Daśaratha whom he beheld was in reality the divine Achyuta. At the moment of his death he was impressed with the notion that his adversary was a mortal, and therefore the fruit he derived from being slain by Viṣṇu was confined to his birth in the illustrious family of the kings of Chedi, and the exercise of extensive dominion.

This gives us a really interesting concept that the demons who do not understand that they are being killed by the Supreme Lord shall probably be reborn with great opportunities but shall not attain moksha till they identify the Lord!

In this situation (as Shishupal) many circumstances brought the names of Viṣṇu to his notice, and on all these occasions the enmity that had accumulated through successive births influenced his mind; and in speaking constantly with disrespect of Achyuta, he was ever repeating his different appellations. Whether walking, eating, sitting, or sleeping, his animosity was never at rest, and Kṛṣṇa was ever present to his thoughts in his ordinary semblance, having eyes as beautiful as the leaf of the lotus, clad in bright yellow raiment, decorated with a garland, with bracelets on his arms and wrists, and a diadem on his head; having four robust arms, bearing the conch, the discus, the mace, and the lotus. Thus uttering his names, even though in malediction, and dwelling upon his image, though in enmity, he beheld Kṛṣṇa, when inflicting his death, radiant with resplendent weapons, bright with ineffable splendour in his own essence as the supreme being, and all his passion and hatred ceased, and he was purified front every defect.

Being killed by the discus of Viṣṇu at the instant he thus meditated, all his sins were consumed by his divine adversary, and he was blended with him by whose might he had been slain. I have thus replied to your inquiries. He by whom the divine Viṣṇu is named or called to recollection, even in enmity, obtains a reward that is difficult of attainment to the demons and the gods: how much greater shall be his recompense who glorifies the deity in fervour and in faith!

So as per the Vishnu Puran the reason for salvation not being achieved by Hiranyakashipu and Ravan was the lack of understanding that the being responsible for their death was Lord Vishnu Himself, as well as NOT having thought about the Lord continuously whereas Shishupal, who was born hearing about Krishna also at the time of his death, gained that wisdom of knowing Krishna as the Supreme Being Himself and attained liberation.


There is Sri Vaikunta (Paramapada), and there is Karya Vaikunta, a branch like TTD Devasthanam, which is where Jaya/Vijaya and SanatKumaras incident happens.

I have heard this in upanyasa/pravachan, and also found this link:

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