I am not asking about Guna based system. Here 1 and 2 rising in varna hierarchy is mentioned but it says a Sudra will be born as a Vasihya then a Ksatriya and then a Bramhana. Cant a Sudra's next birth be Bramhana?
asked Jun 28, 2021 at 12:56
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I thought Karma had influence on species (human or animal or insect or something else) only. Interesting to know that even varna is affected by karma in previous janams.– sbhartiJun 29, 2021 at 1:39
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1 and 2 are the same source & same translation. And "guna based system" is not separate or different from birth system. If Guna is not maintained of Brahmin then he will become Shudra in the same birth.– R. KaushikJun 29, 2021 at 4:34
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2 Answers
The same linked url gives the answer:
By these good acts, again, O goddess, when performed, a Sudra becomes a Brahmana, and a Vaisya becomes a Kshatriya.
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It is with the aid of these acts, O goddess, that a person who has sprung from a degraded order, viz., a Sudra, may become a Brahmana refined of all stains and possessed of Vedic lore.
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I have thus told thee a mystery, viz., the manner in which a Sudra may become a Brahmana
Manu 9.335 - If he is pure, attendant upon his superiors, of gentle speech, free from pride, and always dependent upon the Brāhmaṇa,—he attains a higher caste.
Medhatithi's commentary:
He attains a ‘higher caste’—such as the Brāhmaṇa and the rest.
Normally people acquire the next higher caste, but if they are really spiritual, then they can be a brahmana next birth.
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If we read both links completely it says, Sudra first becomes Vaishya then Ksatriya then Brahmana. Please open second link and see 1st footnote "The sense seems to be this: a Vaisya ultimately becomes a Brahmana by observing the duties indicated in verses 30 to 33. As the immediate reward, however, of his observance of these duties, he becomes a great Kshatriya. What he should next do in order to become a Brahmana is said in the verses that follow." Jun 28, 2021 at 16:16
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Its beauty of india caste system that makes a person better, good, very good.. birth by birth and finally moksha.. but if one is born in other countries no way to moksha.. they can be in cycles forever one intruging question where there is exception Gajendara elephant his past birth indradyumna pandya but he had performed his moksha sadhana in previous birth as kshatriya.. we have Manu, we have many kings attaind moksha.. Good example king bharat becomes deer and then becomes brahmana to attain moksha, we have Crab which attains brahmana hood by grace sage vyasa Jun 28, 2021 at 16:39
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@SethuSrivatsaKoduru Normally people acquire the next higher caste, but if they are really spiritual, then they can be a brahmana next birth. I edited the answer with this info now.– IkshvakuJun 28, 2021 at 17:32
If you die a Shudra I think Manusmriti (Chapter 9) gives a way in which you can:
शुचिरुत्कृष्टशुश्रूषुर्मृदुवागनहङ्कृतः । ब्राह्मणाद्याश्रयो नित्यमुत्कृष्टां जातिमश्नुते ॥ ३३५ ॥
If he is pure, attendant upon his superiors, of gentle speech, free from pride, and always dependent upon the Brāhmaṇa,—he attains a higher caste.—(335)
Now the words "next life" are not given here. But considering that no other verse in Manusmriti supports Varna change in this birth explicitly, and probably at least more than a hundred verses support caste / varna by birth only - we can assume this also means in the next life. This is also assumption of some translators. For example this translation:
- (A Sudra who is) pure, the servant of his betters, gentle in his speech, and free from pride, and always seeks a refuge with Brahmanas, attains (in his next life) a higher caste.
The above is translated by G. Buhler and you can find same thing in hindi translations also. Like this one by pandit GP Dwivedi
.....वह क्रम से उत्तम जाती में जन्म पता है ।
So the word born is used. Although this could also refer to second birth. But there is no indication in Manusmriti that this is possible. Shudra is considered unfit for sacraments. So it has to be next birth. After all, smriti supports birth system !!
