Why does Sri Krishna Vishwaroop contain all the manifestations of Adityas, Rudras, Shiva, Brahma, Vasus, Aswinis, etc., but surprisingly not Sri Ram?
Why does Krishna Vishwaroop contain all the manifestations of Adityas, Rudras, Shiva, Brahma, Vasus, Aswinis, etc., but surprisingly not Sri Ram?
According to Vedās it is Śrī Rām alone who manifests in numerous forms:—
रूपस्थानां देवतानां पुंस्त्र्यङ्गास्त्रादिकल्पना । द्विचत्वारिषडष्टानां दश द्वादश षोडश ॥ अष्टादशामी कथिता हस्ताः शङ्खादिभिर्युताः । सहस्रान्तास्तथा तासां वर्णवाहनकल्पना ॥
It is from the form of Śrī Rām that the forms of man, woman, Armies and weapons are conceived. All the gods are situated in Sri Ram. So they take different forms etc. and serve Sri Ram but are not different / separate from them (Rama). When Sri Ram manifests he assumes many forms, some have two hands (Śrī Krishna), some have four (Śrī Nārāyana), eight (Sri Bahuma Purusha, Swēt Dweep), ten, twelve, sixteen and eighteen hands. In the form of a Chaturbhuj, his hands are adorned with conches and other objects (Disc, Lotus & Mace). When he assume the Virat Purusha (world form), they have thousands of hands. Those different forms are said to have different colors and vehicles (like Sri Narayan has Garuda, Sri Shiva has Bull etc.)
(Atharva veda Shruti Rām Pūrva Tāpaniya Upanishad 1.8–9)
शक्तिसेनाकल्पना च ब्रह्मण्येवं हि पञ्चधा । कल्पितस्य शरीरस्य तस्य सेनादिकल्पना ॥
Sri Ram just manifestes different-different kinds of Powers, Armies etc. & five brahmans i.e. Sri Shiva, Sri Vishnu, Sri Ganesh, Sri Surya, Śrimati Devi Durga. And from that five forms he manifests different-different kinds of Armies etc.
(Atharva veda Shruti Rām Pūrva Tāpaniya Upanishad 1.10)
And infact according to Vedās it's Sri Ram who manifests as Lord Sri Krishna, when Sri Ram was in Dandakaranya Forest than the Sages of that forest were attracted towards the Great beauty of Sri Rāghav and they asked a boon to delight with Sri Ram & Sri Ram said he will full-fill that in his upcoming incarnation as Sri Krishna as this whole incident is mentioned in Atharva veda Shruti Krishna Upaniṣad 1.1;
यो रामः कृष्णतामेत्य सार्वात्म्यं प्राप्य लीलया । अतोषयद्देव्मौनिपटलं तं नतोऽस्म्यहम्।।
(Atharvavedā Shākhāyam Krishna Upanishad 1.1)
That Śrī Rāma, who transformed himself (incarnated) as Krishnā, attained Sarvaatmakta (सार्वभौमिकता) by his very lilā (divine exploits, pastimes); and thus deities-sages-masses were completely satisfied on this earth. I make prostration before that same Śrī Rāma.
हरिः ॐ श्रीमहाविष्णुं सच्चिदानन्दलक्षणं रामचन्द्रं दृष्ट्वा सर्वाङ्गसुन्दरं मुनयो वनवासिनो विस्मिता बभूवुः। तं होचुर्नोऽवद्यमवतारान्वै गण्यन्ते आलिङ्गामो भवन्तमिति भवान्तरे कृष्णावतारे यूयं गोपिका भूत्व मामालिङ्गथ अन्ये येऽवतारास्ते हि गोपा न स्त्रीश्च नो कुरु अन्योन्यविग्रहं धार्यं तवाङ्गस्पर्शनादिह शाश्वतस्पर्शयितास्माकं गृहीमोऽवतारावयम् ॥
रुद्रादीनां वचः शृत्वा प्रोवाच भगवान्स्वयम् । अङ्गयङ्गं करिष्यामि भवद्वाक्यं करोम्यहम्॥
The forest-dwelling sages (of Dan DakaaraNya) beholding the all handsome, all attractive Lord Shri Ramachandra whose Sachidanand Lakshan is Maha Vishnu himself, were bedazzled with surprise! On beholding the transcendental beauty of Śrī Rām, they forgot their very own existence. Then the Sages said to Lord Śrī Rām: O' all attractive Lord, we are counted in having inferior births (as we have fallen in the birth cycle), still we wish to embrace you. Then Lord Śrī Rām to sages: Let all of you embrace me (Shri Rāma; मामालिङ्गथ), after you become Gopikas (cowherd women) in (my next incarnation) another Krishnavatar.
(Here Lord Sri Ram employs 'Maam', means you will embrace 'me' (no second personality) in mood of conjugal love, so here all misconception vanishes that Rāma enters into Krishna as second person. So all devotee of Rama can embrace Rama in mood of conjugal love after being manifested as Amsha of Bhagvati-Sita.) To this sages requested: please don't make us born as Gopa (illiterate, Ganvaar) or a Stri (woman). (Thus the sages insisted with Lord in love that) We will manifest only if you grant us a constant touch of Your divine body there.
(Atharvavedā Shruti Krishna Upaniṣad 1.2)
Around same Shlokā has also been found in Padmā Purān Uttarkhañd which says;
पुरा महर्षय सर्वे दण्डकारण्यवासिन । दृष्ट्वा राम हरि तत्र भोक्तुमिच्छन् सुविग्रहम् ॥ ते सर्व स्त्रीत्वमापन्ना समुदभूताश्च गोकुले । हरि सप्राप्य कामेन ततो मुक्ता भवार्णवात् ॥
Inshort! Seeing Śrī Rāma, sages were filled with Kanta Bhaav (Priya Pritam Bhāv) than Śrī Rāma told them to wait till his next incarnation as Śrī Krishnā in Gokul, than he will full fill their desires.
नारायणोपि रामशः शंखचक्रगदाव्जधृक्। चतुर्भुजस्वरूपेण वैकुण्ठे च प्रकाशते॥ अवतारा बहवः सति कलाश्र्चांशविभूतयः। राम एव परं ब्रह्म सच्चिदानन्दमव्ययम्।।
(Samved Bhārdwaj Saṃhitā)
Śrī Hāri Nāräyana is an incarnation of Śrī Rāma and shines in Vāikunth in the form of four arms with conch, chakra and mace. There are many incarnations of Śrī Rāma differentiating by Kalãs, Part, Vibhuti etc. But Śrī Rāma himself is Par-Brahma who devoid of Māya in his two armed form.
As Sri Ram manifestes himself as Sri Krishna & Sri Narayana so how Sri Krishna/Vishnu can assumes the form of Sri Ram in Vishwa Roop as he is himself Sri Ram.
Every single deity is manifestation of Parātpar Par-Brahma Śrī Rām that is why Srimad Rāmāyaṇa says,
नेति नेति जेहि बेद निरूपा। निजानंद निरुपाधि अनूपा॥ संभु बिरंचि बिष्नु भगवाना। उपजहिं जासु अंस तें नाना॥
(Śrīmad Rāmāyaṇam 1.143.3)
Meaning :- Whom the Vedas describe by saying 'neti-neti' (not this, not this also). Who is blissful, titleless and unique and from whose part many Lord Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu appear.
नारायणं नारसिंहं वायुदेवं वाराहं तत्सर्वान्त्समात्रान्त्सीतं लक्ष्मणं शत्रुघ्नं भरतं विभीषणं सुग्रीवमङ्गदं जाम्बवन्तं प्रणवमेतानि रामस्याङ्गानि जानीथाः ।
(Yajurvedā Shākhayam Rām Rahāshya Upanishād 1.7½)
Lord Śrī Hari Nārāyana, Lord Narasimha, Lord Vāsudev (Śrī Krishnā), Lord Vāraha etc. All are the parts (अंश) of Lord Śrī Rāma. Lakshmāna, Shātrughna, Bharata, Vibhishana, Sugriva, Angad, Jambavant and Pranav (Om ॐ) are also mere portions of Lord Śrī Rāma.
श्रीराम एव सर्व कारणं तस्य रूप द्वयं परिछिन्न मपरिछिन्नं परिछिन्न स्वरूपेण साकेत प्रमदावने तिष्ठन रास मेव करोति द्वितीयं स्वरूपं जगद्पत्वादेः कारणं तद्दक्षिणांगात्क्षाराबि्ध शायी वामांगाद्रमा वैकुण्ठवासीति हृदयात्पर नारायणो वभूव चरणाभ्यां वदरिको पवन स्थायी शृङ्गारान्नन्दनन्दन इति ।
(Atharvaveda Shākhayam Vishwambhar Upanishad Ch. 1 Verse 5)
Translating Highlighted~ Śrī Rām alone is the cause of EVERYONE. From whose heart, Śrī Hari Nārāyan manifests and whose adornment manifests as Śrī Krishnā.
Śrī Rām is alone cause of all causes the Param Kāran this is being said by non-other than Śrī Hari Nārāyan Himself;
वासुदेवादि मुर्तिनाम् चतुर्नाम् कारणं परम्। चतुर्विंशति मुर्तिनाम् आश्रय श्रीरामः शरणं मम।।
(Brihād Brahmā Samhitā 2.7.8)
Śrī Hari Narayana says to Brahmā Ji that the supreme cause of the four vyuhas, such as Vāsudeva. Śrī Rāma, the shelter of the twenty-four avtars, is my refuge.
परान्नारायणाच्चापि कृष्णात्परतरादपि। यो वै परतमः श्रीमान् रामो दाशरथिः स्वराट् ॥
Vashistha Samhita, Chapter 26, verse 17
The one who is beyond Śrī Hāri Nāräyana, who is beyond even Śrī Krishnā, who is the most Paratammamvarat Paramatma, that is Dashrath's son Śrīmān Rām.
ततस्त्वमसि दुर्धर्षात्तस्माद् भावात् सनातनात् । रक्षार्थं सर्वभूतानां विष्णुत्वं उपजग्मिवान् ॥
(Śrī Vālmiki Rāmāyaṇa 7.104.9)
"After my prayers in the begining of the creation, Oh Rāma ! You forsaken Your durdharsa (the swarupa which is difficult to be achieved for many i.e. the eternal two armed Śrī Rāma form) and assumed the form of Vīshnu for the sake of protection and sustenance of all the beings."
यस्यांशेन एव ब्रह्म विष्णु महेश्वरा अपि जाता महाविष्णुर्य्यस्य दिव्यगुणाश्च । स एव कार्यकारणयोः परः परमपुरुषो रामो दाशरथिर्वभुव॥
(Atharvavedā Shruti Vedsar Upanishad, Uttarkhand)
From whose Portions (Ansh) Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara are manifested, Whose divine Guna is Mahavisnu, The only one who is the cause of all causes, The one who is higher than the highest, such is Śrī Rāma, the son of Dasratha. (Approx same shloka is also found in Vashisht Samhita Ch. 26 and Samved Sudarshan Samhita 1–5.)
And Sri Ram is the Original Form Of Vishnū Tattva or Most Ancient Form Of Hari;
द्विहस्तमेवऋञ्च शुद्धस्फटिकसन्निभम्। मरीचिमण्डले संस्थं बाणाद्यायुधलाञ्छितम्।। किरीट हार केयूर वनमाला विराजितम् । पीताम्बर धरं सौम्यं रूपमाद्यमिदं हरेः॥
(Narad Panchratra Padma Samhita)
Concluding meaning is that, In the Sun (the divine light/effulgence), there is the original primeval-form of Śrī Hāri having one face and two hands with bow and arrow."
द्विभुजो जानकीजानिस्सदा सर्वत्र एव हि। भक्तेच्छातः पुनर्जातो वैकुंठे ते चतुर्भुज।।
(Shiv Samhita, 5th patal, chapter 2)
The two-armed Janakivallabh Shri Ram, you are always everywhere. By the will of your devotee, you take 4 handed narayan form in vaikunth.
In Everyone's Viswa Swarōop Everyone Will Present But Sri Ram Will Not, As He Is Alone Parātpar Par-Brahma From Whome Everything & Everyone Manifests.
एष रामः परंब्रह्मकार्यकारणतः परम्। चराचरजगत्स्वामीनमानुषवपुर्धरः ॥ एतद्धिब्रह्मविज्ञानमधुनाज्ञातवानहम्।
This Shri Rāmachandrā ji Maharaj is the Par-Brahma beyond Kārya and kāran (here beyond Kāran means that Lord Rāma is Swayam Bhagwān) the lord of the world, even though he comes like human being, he is not really a human being. To know him in this form is absolutely a Brahma Gyan. I have understood this Tattva now.
(Shri Padma Mahapuran 5/28/59-60)
योऽसावयोध्याधिपतिः सपरब्रह्मशब्दितः। तस्ययाजानकीदेवीसाक्षात्साचिन्मयीस्मृता ।। एनंतुयोगिनःसाक्षादुपासतेयमादिभिः । दुस्तरापारसंसारवारिधिंसंतितीर्षवः॥ स्मृतमात्रोमहापापहारीसगरुडध्वजः । यएनंसेवतेविद्वान्ससंसारंतरिष्यति ॥
The one who is Lord of Ayodhya Puri Maharaj Shri Ram Chandra ji, his name is Par-Brahma and the one who is his wife Janakishori Bhagwati Srisita ji, she is considered to be the visible power of Lord Shriram, ………
(Shri Padma Mahapuran 5/28/59-60)
राम एव परं ब्रह्म राम एव परं तपः । राम एव परं तत्त्वं श्रीरामो ब्रह्म तारकम्।।
Śrī Rāma is alone Par-Brahma, Śrī Rāma is alone highest Tapa, Śrī Rām is alone highest Tattva, He is the Tārak Brahma.
(Atharvavedā Ram Rahasya Upanishad Chapter 3/Canto 1, Shloka 6)
The Name Par-Brahma is certainly dedicated to Sri Ram alone;
अतस्त्वं जानकीनाथ परब्रह्मासि निश्चितम् । त्वन्मायामोहितास्सर्वे न त्वां जानंति तत्वतः ।।
(Sri Padma Mahapuran 6/242/41)
Therefore, O lord of Jānakī Śrī Rām, you are absolutely the Par-Brahman. All deluded by you do not know you truly.
Then I saw ramanath Shri Ram the Purna Brahma (पूर्ण ब्रह्म).
(Shri Padma Mahapuran 5/28/73)
Thank You For Reading 🌼🌼
The claim "According to Vedās" as if it's a unilateral message that resonates across vedic Shakas and its recessions, yet you use Rāmrahashya Upanishad which Sri Ram himself lists at 54th. 2nd, Upanishad doesn't have an emphasis on the second "ā" its not pronounced UpanishAd it's Upaniṣad. The same goes for Rahasya. Finally, each sect is welcome to pick those aspects of literature that help their cause and method, but using one to throw a unilateral claim overwriting Vedic families and their shakas, seem desperate when you yourself raise and answer the question. Mar 21 at 13:24
त्वत्तो विनिर्गता भुयो वयं लीयेमहि त्वयि। त्वमेव परमं गुह्यं त्वमेव परमं पदम्।। त्वमेव परमं ब्रह्म त्वमेव शरणं हितः। तत् त्वम् असि इति वेदांत महावाक्य उपपादितम्।। निर्वक्ति मंत्र तत्व अर्थम् इति राम नमोस्तुते।
Skandpuran Nirvana khand quoted by gita press Kalyan ram vachanamrit popularly known as ram gita of skandpuran
हे श्री राम! ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, महेश आदि सारे देवता आप से ही उत्पन्न हो कर आप में ही विलीन हो जाते हैं। आप ही परम् तत्व है, आप ही परम् पद हैं, आप ही परम् ब्रह्म है और आप ही एकमात्र शरणदाता हैं। तत् त्वं असि यह वेदान्त महावाक्य द्वारा उपपादित आप के मंत्र के तत्व का अर्थ का निरुपन करता है। आपको नमस्कार है।
Hey Shri Ram! All the gods like Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh etc. are born from you and merge in you. You are the supreme element, you are the supreme position, you are the supreme Brahman and you are the only refuge. Tat Tvam Asi This represents the meaning of the essence of your mantra as derived from the Vedanta Mahavakya. Greetings to you.
Moreover in ram gita of adbhut ramayan, shri Ram has shown viswarup to hanuman which is written again in Mahabharata van parv but this time it's shown to parshuram.
Bhagawān Shiva was not present in the the Vishwaroopam neither in Vibhootis of B.G.:
"pasyami devam stava deva dehe | sarvams tatha bhuta-visesa-sanghan | brahmanam isam kamalasana-stham | rsims ca sarvan uragams ca divyan |" (BG. 11:15).
The phrase in 11.15 is "brahmanam isham kamalasana-stham". Because the word "isham" appears between "brahmanam" and "kamala-asana-stham" it is a designation of Brahma who sits on the lotus, and hence the CORRECT translation should be - "Brahma who is the lord, is found seated on his lotus seat". It very strongly proves that the sandwiched "Isham" is the quality of lordship and not a proper name. Therefore it refers to Brahma and states, "Lord Brahma is seated on a lotus".
Ramanuja and Madhva both suggest that "isha" means Shiva who is seated on Brahma who is on the lotus seat. In his Bhashya Ramanuja writes, "tatha isham kamalasana-stham kamalasane brahmani sthitam" and Madhva follows Ramanuja here. However Adi Shankaracharya CORRECTLY interprets it that "isham" refers to Brahma in this verse and not to Shiva. In his bhashya Shankaracharya writes, "brahmanam chatur-mukham isham ishataram prajanam kamalasana-stham" and all the western translators (including Robert Zaehner who followed Ramanuja throughout differs with him and adopts Shankara's interpretation as correct for this verse) follow Shankara. Brahma is "isham" because of his lordship over all creatures. Adi Shankaracharya is more reliable saint than the Ramanuja and Madhwa because of being a secular acharya. Hence here Shankara's words needs to be taken as true.
Even the great Sanskrit scholar Mr. Kesari Mohan ganguly (KMG) who translated the Vyasa Mahabharata from Sanskrit to English in the period 1883-1896; even he did not err the way Ramanuja and Madhava erred in translating verse BG 11:15. He didn't give importance of word "isha" at all. He simply translated it as follows:
"Arjuna said, 'I behold all the gods, O God, as also all the varied hosts of creatures, (and) Brahma seated on (his) lotus seat, and all the Rishis and the celestial snakes. I behold Thee with innumerable arms, stomachs, mouths, (and) eyes, on every side...."
Fixing B.G. 11.15. Isham translation problem in respect to Sri Adi Shankaracharya, Sri K.M.G, and Sri Vaishnava scholars.:
Bhagawān Shiva is called as possessing Vishwaroopa in Vedas - "vishwaroopebhyo namah" (Sri Rudram of Yajurveda).
As for Vibhootis,
In 'Vibhooti Yoga' chapter 10 of Bhagwad Gita Sri Krishna says.:
"rudrAnAm sankaraschAsmi |" (BG. 10:23).
"Among the Rudras I'm Shankara".
In the present Kalpa the names of the eleven Rudras are.:
- Mahadeva, 2. Shiva , 3. Maha Rudra, 4. Shankara, 5. Neelalohita, 6. Eshana Rudra, 7. Vijaya Rudra, 8. Bheema Rudra, 9. Devadeva, 10. Bhavodbhava and 11. Adityatmaka Srirudra.
Their 11 consorts of these 11 Rudras in this present Kalpa are respectively the following names.:
- Dhee devi, 2. Dhritti devi, 3. Ushna (Rasala) devi, 4. Uma devi, 5. Neeyut devi, 5. Sarpi devi, 7. Eela devi, 8. Ambika devi, 9. Ieravati devi, 10. Sudha devi and 11. Deeksha devi
So, among these 11 Rudras he is no. 4 viz Shankara.
As for Lord Rama.:
पवन: पवतामस्मि राम: शस्त्रभृतामहम् | झषाणां मकरश्चास्मि स्रोतसामस्मि जाह्नवी || B.G. 10.31||
Amongst purifiers, I am the wind, and amongst wielders of weapons, I am Lord Ram. Of water creatures, I am the crocodile, and of flowing rivers, I am the Ganges.
Why Lord Rama was not shown is Vishwaroop.?
It's like asking why Kurma, Matsya, Varaha, Narsimha, etc were not seen in Vishwaroop.?
Well, it's because their source Lord Vishnu was already there. That's why.
Srimad Devi Bhagwatam Mahā Puranam 5:1:12-54. says thus.:
12-54. Vyāsa said :- ". . . Śiva is the God of gods; and He is the Lord of all the causal bodies that exist; in the state of Suṣupti (deep sleep). In this respect, Śiva is the creator of Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu worships Him in this light. Rāma, Kṛṣṇa and others are all part incarnations of Viṣṇu; so there is no wonder if they worship Śiva......."
I hope this clarifies all your queries. Prd..
Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on Hinduism Meta, or in Hinduism Chat. Comments continuing discussion may be removed.– TheLittleNaruto ♦May 25 at 16:40